Don’t get me wrong: I certainly don’t wish for corporations to destroy the environment for their own benefit, but primarily because I believe that if the environment is to be exploited for industry the rewards of that should be shared equitably amongst the workers in a worker-owner cooperative structure, and the spoils of it should be shared equitably across mankind, and not only those alive today, but also those in the future, hence we need sustainability.

Insofar as actually wanting to preserve it for its own sake though - I think it’s meaningless, in a vacuum I would in fact prefer less biodiversity, especially when it comes to insects, and I would really like it if we could exterminate all species of fungi, mosses, lichen as well.

Where others see untouched ecosystems I see unused land that could be a nice city.

I’m an anarchist but I am firmly anti-degrowth, I would genuinely side with neolibs against anprims because they made a far better world even for all it’s flaws. Doesn’t help that neolibs have actual arguments and all anprims have is the “noble savage” and “appeal to nature” fallacies. Superficially I’m more on the side of soviet tech optimism if that makes sense.

Beyond the political, I don’t really have any affinity for it, there are people who say various nonsense like “green spaces improve our mental health” whereas I find them mostly depressing and kind of out of place.

I am okay with parks in cities as long as they’re empty and within reach of civilization, but green spaces like parks in cities aren’t nature, they’re a well curated almost entirely artificial human creation, an expressionist pastiche of green.

Actual nature is wildfires, cancer, floods, earthquakes, predation, parasitism, prions, wasps, itching, pain, burning, poisons, toxins, spores, fungi, spores, lichen, moss, mosquitoes, wasps, bacteria, sun overly bright, needing to pee, being itchy, negative emotions, reptiles, spiders, no amenities, dirt, dirty water (swamps), viruses, bacteria, thorns, stinging nettles, mites, ticks, lyssavirus, people turning to religion etc.

Flowers smell okay, but really air freshener smells better.

I find it all absolutely disgusting, and what’s even more disgusting is that these things can affect my unfortunate meat flesh prison, it could make me sick with some COVID-over9000 - another of mother nature’s little treats, and then ruin my plans for the day, or even my life.

Nature is pain and agony, and when it’s not trying to kill you, it’ll damn well do it’s best to make you uncomfortable 24/7, it makes me long for the eternal sanctity of steel in lieu of flesh, and the safety of concrete paved city roads lit under a warm orange glow of an artificial street lights. Some nice brutalist architecture, flat colours, sharp geometric shapes - urban and industrial environments feel like home.

As long as there isn’t crowds though - people are nature too and pretty disgusting as well, they are as irrational as any frightened animal and a vector for disease.

I never understood what the big deal was with staying inside during the pandemic. It’s one thing if you have a shit place and you have to house share or live with parents, if you rent a semi-modern apartment for yourself, I don’t see the issue. As long as you’re comfortable and have plenty of space, what else is there? All the things one could want are on the internet anyway.

I much prefer the internet tbh, here I have control, if there’s something I don’t like, I don’t have to ever see it again, but I can also engage with it freely without the interaction ever escaping my control, my agency is never impeded. The digital space is much more liberating.

Outside I can’t really use an adblocker, or a waspblocker, or a sporeblocker, or a people-blocker.

I’ve read a number of posts like this on Reddit before and to get ahead of the usual replies:

You have allergies!

No. I don’t have any as far as I know.

You just need to do shrooms

I have several times, though I kinda hated it, I much prefer acid myself, and it didn’t change my opinion in the slightest. Best place to trip is at home, I can’t imagine the panic attack I’d have tripping outside. Actually I can because I have. Would not do that again. At least it was in a business district and not in some ugly forest so I could duck into a Starbucks.

You hate animals

No, I’ve actually had pets. That said while I value the companionship I would prefer an artificial companion instead.

You just need to spend more time in nature

I’ve already spent way more time in nature than I’d ever want.

You should read about nature more

Yeah I have. I actually quite like reading about ancient creatures and whatnot, especially from the Cambrian period.

You’re just born after 2000!

Idk how that one is relevant but I’m from 1998.

But you’re part of nature

Yeah, I hate that. The bits about myself that I love are all that I managed in spite of it, not because of it. I will hate growing old as my meat prison rots and breaks down and I will hate having to confront mortality knowing there is so much to do.

You just haven’t visited [x]

I’ve visited the French Alps as a kid and it smelled like pig shit and made me exhausted, I’ve visited farms and it smelled like horseshit and was dirty, I’ve visited Times Square and it was the happiest memory I had as a kid. As an adult I’ve visited all up and down the UK and Russia (the Baikal and Ural) and idk about the nature there, it’s all just whatever and blends in.

At one time a field in the UK offered me peace when I needed it due to material struggles and I enjoyed it, (despite the unfortunate fact it was a reminder of wealth inequality because it was all privately owned by some aristocrat) or at least I thought I enjoyed it, now that I fixed it by improving my material circumstances and have no need for it.

  • Allero@lemmy.today
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    8 hours ago

    I would really like it if we could exterminate all species of fungi, mosses, lichen as well.

    Congrats - you just destroyed yeasts and useful molds (both are fungi).

    Now we don’t have bread and most alcoholic beverages, skin is lacking natural protection, and yes - no more blue cheese.

    In seriousness, this kind of opinion shows lack of understanding as to why those ecosystems are preserved in the first place. Not only are they directly responsible for producing things like oxygen, they prevent a lot of natural disasters (drought, cataclysmic hurricanes, land erosion, etc), and are able to naturally replenish their own resources, unlike agricultural land that either needs influx of matter from natural ecosystems, or requires finite resources extracted from Earth (for example, apatite).

    As much as we think of ourselves as the conquerors of nature, in the long run we still cannot exist without it. We didn’t figure it out.

  • unsettlinglymoist@lemmy.world
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    11 hours ago

    I suppose this qualifies as an unpopular opinion, but it’s some of the most cringeworthy pseudo-intellectual garbage I’ve ever read.

    You view nature as useless and hostile, but you ignore its most basic undeniable benefits – food, oxygen production, climate regulation. You view cities as clean and efficient utopias, while ignoring that they’re plagued by crime, air pollution, industrial waste, disease outbreaks, noise, social isolation, and the urban heat island effect. Your preference for steel and concrete over living ecosystems doesn’t change the fact that those ecosystems keep you alive.

    You identify as an anarchist (lol, of course you do) but you admire “Soviet tech optimism” which was based on central planning, state control and authoritarianism. You argue in favor of neoliberalism which is directly opposed to anarchism. You claim to be anti-degrowth and pro-sustainability, yet degrowth promotes sustainable technology. Your political viewpoints are a confused, incoherent mess and maybe someone more knowledgeable than me in that area will take the time to point out your other contradictory statements and misrepresentations.

    You don’t consider what happens if most plant and animal species die, or its devastating effects on food production, the climate and human survival. None of that matters to you because your worldview doesn’t extend beyond your home and wifi network. Of course the fact that billions of people find comfort and purpose in nature is incomprehensible to someone like you whose life is devoid of meaning.

    Your “meat flesh prison” comments are especially pathetic considering that all human experience (including your miserable urban-online existence) is mediated by biology. You can delude yourself into believing you’re above the disorder of the natural world, but you still rely on the very biological processes you claim to despise.

    This is an embarrassingly bad take and you come across as someone incapable of forming real human connections. Most of the rest of us will be out embracing the chaos, beauty and unpredictability of the real world while you wither away, unhappy and unfulfilled, in the sterile prison you’ve created for yourself.

  • bigboismith@lemmy.world
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    23 hours ago

    I’ll never understand why people downvote unpopular opinions on unpopular opinions. While being bonkers it’s written well

  • Ceedoestrees@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    I hate this opinion so I’ve upvoted you.

    But I don’t know, from my unaccredited armchair sounds like control issues and agoraphobia.

    • LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
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      1 day ago

      I thought agoraphobia might be the case and it would make sense as I’m a minority and trusted polls show most of the nation wants my rights gone, but I don’t actually have any issues going outside and I don’t fear people, I don’t have issues even going out in nature, I just don’t like the latter same as I don’t like Chinese or Indian food, I will eat it if it’s all that’s available but I won’t enjoy it.

      My mental health is actually pretty perfect these days.

      Not everything is some mental illness, people just have different opinions and mine is well reasoned I’d like to think.

      On the other hand “loving nature” is something I seldom see justified in any meaningful way, so I remain unconvinced that it is something to consider.

      Do you have any logical reasons for why you disagree (and “hate”) my opinion?

      • Ceedoestrees@lemmy.world
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        17 hours ago

        Whenever someone asks if I have a “logical” reason to disagree, it usually means according to their logic. Hate is logical. Disliking nature is logical. Liking nature is logical. Thinking a love of nature needs to be justified to you, on your terms, is not logical, so I’m not touching that one.

      • werty@sh.itjust.works
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        22 hours ago

        I also prefer indoor plumbing and the absence of insects and I think nature is a bit of a horror show. What I find odd is your repeated assertion that

        My mental health is actually pretty perfect these days.

        That’s a really unpopular opinion and one I cannot relate to in the slightest. How does it feel?

  • FelixCress@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    I never understood what the big deal was with staying inside during the pandemic. It’s one thing if you have a shit place and you have to house share or live with parents, if you rent a semi-modern apartment for yourself, I don’t see the issue. As long as you’re comfortable and have plenty of space, what else is there?

    I agree with this part, yet:

    Flowers smell okay, but really air freshener smells better.

    No.

    I’ve visited the French Alps as a kid and it smelled like pig shit

    Definitely not.

    • LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
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      Idk, flowers are just weak air freshener honestly. It’s not surprising that something that was created to smell good to us smells better to us than something that wasn’t meant to smell good at all.

      Definitely not.

      Guess we approached from different sides. Where we descended there was smell from a nearby pig farm. Almost swore off animal products then and there just because animals get pretty gross ngl.

      • FelixCress@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago
        Progress,” he said finally, “is like a herd of pigs. That’s how you should look at progress, that’s how you should judge it. Like a herd of pigs trotting around a farmyard. Numerous benefits derive from the fact of that herd’s existence. There’s pork knuckle. There’s sausage, there’s fatback, there are trotters in aspic. In a word, there are benefits! There’s no point turning your nose up at the shit everywhere.
        

        Andrzej Sapkowski, The Lady of the Lake (The Witcher #7)

  • SamuraiBeandog@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    No, I’ve actually had pets. That said while I value the companionship I would prefer an artificial companion instead.

    I think this says everything that needs to be said about the position this opinion is coming from.

    • LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
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      1 day ago

      Does it? What’s the position? Ultimately my reason for posting this is to create a discussion so I’m curious to hear what you think.

      • SamuraiBeandog@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        I find it all absolutely disgusting, and what’s even more disgusting is that these things can affect my unfortunate meat flesh prison

        Nature is pain and agony

        I’ve visited the French Alps as a kid and it smelled like pig shit

        I much prefer the internet tbh, here I have control

        These statements are all super dysfunctional, imo. You seem to be trying to hide from the realities of the world.

        • LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
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          1 day ago

          Idk I’m not hiding from anything? Like i can’t really hide from these so-called realities, I just mitigate them as do we all by living in and perpetuating civilization by e.g. not littering thereby not fly-tipping and not attracting flies and other infestations.

          What’s exactly “dysfunctional” about these statements? How can a statement even be “dysfunctional”?

          • SamuraiBeandog@lemmy.world
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            23 hours ago

            Your reactions are very exaggerated, overly emotional and not actually grounded in reality. The French Alps don’t actually smell like pig shit.

            I much prefer the internet tbh, here I have control, if there’s something I don’t like, I don’t have to ever see it again, but I can also engage with it freely without the interaction ever escaping my control

            You type this but then say that you’re not hiding from anything? I’m sure psych textbooks could give you a name for this. Do you really not see a difference between “I don’t litter to avoid attracting flies” and “I don’t want to interact with any situations that I can’t completely control”?

  • andros_rex@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    You probably have some sort of sociopathic leanings, which you aren’t acting on (this is good) A severe disconnect from valuing other lives. This is a type of neurodivergence I think. I’m the kind of person who will risk getting stung by a wasp that’s found her way in my home rather than take a life, so I’m the other extreme perhaps.

    I think learning about ecology would be the most “helpful” route for you. I think a lot about the beauty of finding 13+ ant species in a square meter - what that indicates about complex intertwining systems of life, and how beautiful that is. There’s an enthralling relationship between a certain type of tree in Africa and ants that leads to the ants protecting the tree, while the tree creates a place for the ants to live… the more you learn the more you realize how complicated this is, and how humans can never possibly understand this enough to intervene without fucking things up.

    • LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
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      No. I can’t say I’ve had any “trauma” at all. I grew up in a safe and stable home to loving parents. Nowadays I have a pretty good life and my mental health is pretty perfect, thanks for asking

      • ultranaut@lemmy.world
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        14 hours ago

        I do not understand how you have gone through life without any traumatic experiences, that seems incredibly unlikely. Also, you are perhaps the only person on earth with perfect mental health these days.
        I was thinking you had maybe had a bad experience in nature when you were young because your comment reminded me of a few people I’ve known. At least one of them had a series of bad camping experiences as a child that really defined how they view nature for the rest of their life. I think they had a parent who was really into nature and tried to force it onto them but it didn’t go well.

    • LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
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      1 day ago

      I know Bookchin and I’ve skimmed some of his works, though I’m more familiar with Kropotkin and Graber, what’s your point?