Don’t get me wrong: I certainly don’t wish for corporations to destroy the environment for their own benefit, but primarily because I believe that if the environment is to be exploited for industry the rewards of that should be shared equitably amongst the workers in a worker-owner cooperative structure, and the spoils of it should be shared equitably across mankind, and not only those alive today, but also those in the future, hence we need sustainability.
Insofar as actually wanting to preserve it for its own sake though - I think it’s meaningless, in a vacuum I would in fact prefer less biodiversity, especially when it comes to insects, and I would really like it if we could exterminate all species of fungi, mosses, lichen as well.
Where others see untouched ecosystems I see unused land that could be a nice city.
I’m an anarchist but I am firmly anti-degrowth, I would genuinely side with neolibs against anprims because they made a far better world even for all it’s flaws. Doesn’t help that neolibs have actual arguments and all anprims have is the “noble savage” and “appeal to nature” fallacies. Superficially I’m more on the side of soviet tech optimism if that makes sense.
Beyond the political, I don’t really have any affinity for it, there are people who say various nonsense like “green spaces improve our mental health” whereas I find them mostly depressing and kind of out of place.
I am okay with parks in cities as long as they’re empty and within reach of civilization, but green spaces like parks in cities aren’t nature, they’re a well curated almost entirely artificial human creation, an expressionist pastiche of green.
Actual nature is wildfires, cancer, floods, earthquakes, predation, parasitism, prions, wasps, itching, pain, burning, poisons, toxins, spores, fungi, spores, lichen, moss, mosquitoes, wasps, bacteria, sun overly bright, needing to pee, being itchy, negative emotions, reptiles, spiders, no amenities, dirt, dirty water (swamps), viruses, bacteria, thorns, stinging nettles, mites, ticks, lyssavirus, people turning to religion etc.
Flowers smell okay, but really air freshener smells better.
I find it all absolutely disgusting, and what’s even more disgusting is that these things can affect my unfortunate meat flesh prison, it could make me sick with some COVID-over9000 - another of mother nature’s little treats, and then ruin my plans for the day, or even my life.
Nature is pain and agony, and when it’s not trying to kill you, it’ll damn well do it’s best to make you uncomfortable 24/7, it makes me long for the eternal sanctity of steel in lieu of flesh, and the safety of concrete paved city roads lit under a warm orange glow of an artificial street lights. Some nice brutalist architecture, flat colours, sharp geometric shapes - urban and industrial environments feel like home.
As long as there isn’t crowds though - people are nature too and pretty disgusting as well, they are as irrational as any frightened animal and a vector for disease.
I never understood what the big deal was with staying inside during the pandemic. It’s one thing if you have a shit place and you have to house share or live with parents, if you rent a semi-modern apartment for yourself, I don’t see the issue. As long as you’re comfortable and have plenty of space, what else is there? All the things one could want are on the internet anyway.
I much prefer the internet tbh, here I have control, if there’s something I don’t like, I don’t have to ever see it again, but I can also engage with it freely without the interaction ever escaping my control, my agency is never impeded. The digital space is much more liberating.
Outside I can’t really use an adblocker, or a waspblocker, or a sporeblocker, or a people-blocker.
I’ve read a number of posts like this on Reddit before and to get ahead of the usual replies:
You have allergies!
No. I don’t have any as far as I know.
You just need to do shrooms
I have several times, though I kinda hated it, I much prefer acid myself, and it didn’t change my opinion in the slightest. Best place to trip is at home, I can’t imagine the panic attack I’d have tripping outside. Actually I can because I have. Would not do that again. At least it was in a business district and not in some ugly forest so I could duck into a Starbucks.
You hate animals
No, I’ve actually had pets. That said while I value the companionship I would prefer an artificial companion instead.
You just need to spend more time in nature
I’ve already spent way more time in nature than I’d ever want.
You should read about nature more
Yeah I have. I actually quite like reading about ancient creatures and whatnot, especially from the Cambrian period.
You’re just born after 2000!
Idk how that one is relevant but I’m from 1998.
But you’re part of nature
Yeah, I hate that. The bits about myself that I love are all that I managed in spite of it, not because of it. I will hate growing old as my meat prison rots and breaks down and I will hate having to confront mortality knowing there is so much to do.
You just haven’t visited [x]
I’ve visited the French Alps as a kid and it smelled like pig shit and made me exhausted, I’ve visited farms and it smelled like horseshit and was dirty, I’ve visited Times Square and it was the happiest memory I had as a kid. As an adult I’ve visited all up and down the UK and Russia (the Baikal and Ural) and idk about the nature there, it’s all just whatever and blends in.
At one time a field in the UK offered me peace when I needed it due to material struggles and I enjoyed it, (despite the unfortunate fact it was a reminder of wealth inequality because it was all privately owned by some aristocrat) or at least I thought I enjoyed it, now that I fixed it by improving my material circumstances and have no need for it.
EDIT: Because people cannot read, I’ve highlighted that I do not in fact think we should destroy mosses and lichen etc. and I am in fact aware that destroying any natural ecosystems has has serious negative cascading effects on everything else including human life and I do not wish for it because I’m not a moron
That’s why I said “in a vacuum”, as in -isolated from other factors. I’m glad this post has encouraged discussion but please just actually read it before engaging. The lack of reading comprehension on Lemmy is genuinely worrying.
I hate this opinion so I’ve upvoted you.
But I don’t know, from my unaccredited armchair sounds like control issues and agoraphobia.
I thought agoraphobia might be the case and it would make sense as I’m a minority and trusted polls show most of the nation wants my rights gone, but I don’t actually have any issues going outside and I don’t fear people, I don’t have issues even going out in nature, I just don’t like the latter same as I don’t like Chinese or Indian food, I will eat it if it’s all that’s available but I won’t enjoy it.
My mental health is actually pretty perfect these days.
Not everything is some mental illness, people just have different opinions and mine is well reasoned I’d like to think.
On the other hand “loving nature” is something I seldom see justified in any meaningful way, so I remain unconvinced that it is something to consider.
Do you have any logical reasons for why you disagree (and “hate”) my opinion?
I also prefer indoor plumbing and the absence of insects and I think nature is a bit of a horror show. What I find odd is your repeated assertion that
That’s a really unpopular opinion and one I cannot relate to in the slightest. How does it feel?
It feels great. I have a girlfriend I met off dating apps right before enshittification took full force in OKC, while we have our problems, we do our best and we communicate (the most important thing). I have many friends, some of which go back to my childhood, others are new, just wish I had more time to see them.
I got a job I like (albeit lots of changes atm as my manager and cherished colleague of many years is leaving), and it pays OK, well above median wage in the UK at least, I work from home so I save time and money on commuting and I can interact as little or as much with coworkers as I actually want.
My ADHD meds are working well and I’m able to look after myself and perform tasks more or less on time when I need to do them. I had bottom surgery and discovered I’m pretty much free of gender dysphoria - an ever-present mental anguish I suffered prior. I’ve been through a lot, always uncertain future - I was on the edge of being deported for many years, but at least I have a permanent residence now, so I cherish the good things. Used to be flat broke, now got a bit of money, so when my gaming PC broke it didn’t even phase me, I always knew it as a luxury to not be using an ancient laptop.
When my parents found out I was trans, they disowned me, but as I was an only child and it was their dream, they still paid for my university overseas. I hated them for a long time because I was very much limited by what they would allow me to do, but now that I’m safely independent, as an adult I’m eternally grateful for the opportunities and love they gave me, even if I felt betrayed then and there, I’ve been doing my best to reach out and slowly get back in touch again, even if they’re not exactly trans-positive as one might expect of ex-soviet citizens, they’re not brainwashed Z vatniks, so there’s hope yet, and I do love them, and have many olive branches, they keep slapping away, and I will keep extending them.
I have many hobbies ranging from music production to electronics (like just simple circuits with Arduino type stuff), learning guitar and on to self-hosting stuff, I’ve even released some music on Spotify for fun, I read a lot about the world in my spare time from philosophy to history to economics to stratigraphy.
For the last few months I lived somewhat rurally in a shitty downstairs apartment that actually used to be great but it had a lot of issues not least of which extremely loud, extremely shitty neighbours, that made me feel down for a long time but I actually managed to move, took spending my savings on paying double rent for both flats at once but I moved into a nice spacious new build apartment building with good sound proofing in what the brits call a “new town”, it’s a nice city, very modern, much cycle infrastructure so I think I’ll take that up when I have money, and it’s population density is quite low in the centre so I really enjoy it, feels like a whole city just for me haha, and it’s never crowded at all so thank god!
It’s not that I don’t have problems, but none of them feel unsolvable as they once did, many times I often feel like I can do anything! Maybe even own a house one day!
Sorry, it’s all over the place, but I didn’t just want to say “feels great! Thanks sucker!” But actually explain why I’m great these days so that maybe someone somewhere finds some value in it.
I may come off as a sardonic asshole in my OP, and it is what I intended, but as the world is going to hell and I feel powerless to change it, I want nothing more than for people to find peace and happiness.
You write very well, and i encourage you to write more in the peace and happiness vein. I found your original.post interesting and amusing in the sardonic way but this comment is far more inspiring. I turned my life around once, immediately went the wrong way and now i’m trapped in my sofa again. I’m glad it’s working out for you and i encourage you to share that. It’s a great reminder of what is possible and people need that when the world is going to hell.
Thank you! I hope for the best for you. I hope you can turn it all around again and make your past self proud!
Whenever someone asks if I have a “logical” reason to disagree, it usually means according to their logic. Hate is logical. Disliking nature is logical. Liking nature is logical. Thinking a love of nature needs to be justified to you, on your terms, is not logical, so I’m not touching that one.
There is no “their” logic or “my” logic, not all opinions are equal and not all are valid - there is only actual logic, the system according to which things either make sense or are nonsense. That’s the system I would like people to use when justifying their viewpoints.
Uh huh.
No one is above biases and contradictory beliefs. However, even contradictory beliefs can individually be logical because logic is not the same thing as truth, and truth is relative.
Saying that I “hate” your opinion, but upvoted you, was acknowledging that it was, in fact, Unpopular. Not an invitation to go into whatever internet edgelord argument you’re trying here. Because I’ve read your beliefs, many of which are contradictory, and you apparently can’t take a joke - I don’t think any argument would be in good faith.
I honestly don’t know what to make of this word vomit attempting to make some kind of broad societal statement that you still cared enough to share with the world despite it making no points of any use to anyone.
“Everything is relative” is the philosophy of a child who thinks they know everything. Grow up and form some actual beliefs and realize that yes there is such a thing as truth and yes there is such a thing as objectivity and yes there’s a reason why some opinions are justified and others aren’t. Realize that truth is the basis of science and technology that keeps you alive today.
Sure, people might be all irrational, but there are certainly degrees to irrationality, we might be susceptible to biases or contradictory beliefs, but not all equally so, and it doesn’t make all beliefs inherently contradictory or irrational unless proven to be so, which you have failed to demonstrate.
That’s why some people can be absolutely right, and others can be absolutely wrong, and that can be objective. Go study the scientific method, epistemology, etc. Learn about actual formal logic, propositions, fallacies and so on, teach yourself how to think correctly and do reconsider your anti-intellectualism.
Why are you even here at all, if any slight and gentle attempt at a discussion on a discussion subreddit is “an internet edgelord debate” you’re being “baited” into that definitely won’t be in good faith?
Like, bruh, you opened the app??? What did you expect???
And I would certainly be happy to take your joke had I noticed you making any.
EDIT: Also, blocked. I don’t need this childish truth denialism and anti-intellectualism in my inbox in the morning, it genuinely rustles my jimmies. It’s like the number one reason the whole world has gone to the dogs.
So mentally healthy, you say.