I was talking to one of my friends and he mentioned staying home on July 4, citing how there are a lot of really ugly things going on in the US.
After thinking about this myself, I’m starting to feel the same way. Instead of being proud of the country, I’m feeling like I’m just another wallet that companies and the government are trying to suck all the money out of.
The cost of living is going up, the housing market is a nightmare, I don’t feel very confident in our government at all, the job market is a nightmare…
I think I’ll be staying home this year too… anyone else?
Kinda interesting how you US-Americans have a certain day for being even more patriotic than the average US-patriotism rest of the time. As a German I personally haven’t felt patriotic at any point in my life and most of the people I know (probably more left-leaning than German average) always looked at your patriotism (espacially on July 4th) with a certain lack of understanding. Why even be patriotic? Why always raise the US-flag? Why are there Florida men running through hurricanes with an US-flag? I know independence and stuff, but still why celebrate your patriotism even more on a specific date, even as a more left-leaning person?
I mean, I’d think of it as like being proud of your home and the accomplishments of the country. That doesn’t seem very odd to me. It’s just that lately, I feel like as a nation we are just making so many mistakes and I feel ashamed, not proud of the country.
I have no enthusiasm to raise the US flag this July 4th, excepting maybe showing it upside down as a sign of distress.
When I think about the US and its future, I just get a sinking feeling and I don’t feel very happy about it. I’m ashamed how far this country has fallen in the past two decades.
It hasn’t really fallen, it’s just saying the quiet part out loud for once.
fr, it’s honestly just business as usual except some white people are facing material consequences and their government is being too obvious with its imperialism.
US was built on fascist doctrine and will continue that legacy until systematic change.
Don’t really understand that either. I could understand celebrating the date at which you got an united democracy, that’s certainly an accomplishment. Even that happend a quarter millennium ago, you (even your grandmother) didn’t take part in it and nowadays there’s no British monarchy you can annoy by being a democracy, but celebrating democracy as a concept always is great. But you don’t do that. All what I see from the Atlantic Ocean’s other side is some people celebrating something which is written under “Nationality” in their passports. I personally can’t celebrate something as complex/indefinite as a country. I don’t think complex really is the best word for it, but what I mean is that countries never are only good and also “country” itself is a term so obscure and indefinite. The country existed for nearly 250 years, billions of people lived in it and some terrible stuff happend in and because of it. Wars and crimes and war crimes of leading personell, etc. Surely also some good stuff, but how to seperate that? You simply can’t. Is Ronald Reagan part of what you’re celebrating, is Donald Trump part of it? Is democracy part of it? Is some random 1800s-farmer part of it? Are people even part of it and if no why? Are the country’s borders part of it? Is the tree standing in your backyard part of it? You can’t ignore the killing of civilians in Vietnam war while including democracy or can you? What’s home? Is it your family? Your house? Both?
One thing is for sure: You aren’t the country, you just live at some place on the world which happens to be territory of something named “USA”. Same for me, I have been born at some place which happens to be territory of something called “Germany”. Why should I be proud about the place where I was born? That’s no achievement, I didn’t even contribute to it. I’m proud that I managed to contribute to democracy by protesting and voting. I also felt proud about the A I got in some elementary school test. I’m really proud about switching from Windows to Arch Linux in less than 2 hours. I may some day feel proud for my children while watching them doing something great. I contributed to all of this more or less directly and I can feel proud about it for that reason. But why should I feel proud about a country? Germany is nothing I’m responsible for, the (current path of the) USA is nothing you are responsible for. If you were responsible for it, why shouldn’t I be too?
We can’t feel proud about it, we can’t feel ashamed for it, because it isn’t our fault. However we can change the current situation. Changing the world, having the courage to try it, is something we can feel proud about.
This is just such an odd post for me. I know people that have Nordic or Germanic ancestors and love to celebrate and love that part of their heritage with yearly parties or festivals. Isn’t it a normal human reaction to feel proud of your “tribe”?
I’m not claiming to have invented the USA, and sure, I was just born here. I didn’t land on the moon myself, but I feel proud of the USA when I think about Neil Armstrong doing it.
The USA isn’t all bad, and my life would have had a different track if I was born somewhere else. I think you might be reading too much into it? July 4 isn’t some kind of cult meeting over here where we all chant over the flag and run around in robes. For most people, there’s maybe a parade, a cookout or two, and a day off.
Of all the problems in the USA, people celebrating July 4 or feeling some national pride is way down on my list, and I’d say somewhat typical of people to feel proud about their home.
To be honest: Sounds like some nazi stuff, at least that would be my first impression if someone did it here.
Sarcasm joins the room May be, but killing each other was a normal human reaction for millenia. Sadly still is today sometimes.
NASA is great and I really like it, I feel good for humanity because it is able to do different thing than killing. I wouldn’t call that proud, because I didn’t contribute to it. Even space travelling is to complex to like all of it, moon landing was part of some foolish trial of strength on earth- No, I won’t overanalyse it.
I know your July 4th isn’t a cult meeting, but patriotism seems like something invented for people who have nothing they can feel proud about, because they haven’t archived something to be proud about. (Don’t take that personal.) At the same time patriotism tends to sperate different groups of people which shouln’t be seperated since they all are part of humanity and could archive great stuff together. It’s the one thing evil persons can rely on if they want to create a scapegoat to make people fight this scapegoat instead of seeing that they –the people– all are just part of humanity and should revolt against their evil leaders.
WTF?? I went to one of these parties with my neighbor and he shared his favorite bratwurst recipe and prepared delicious cabbage dishes for us. How does that relate to Nazis?!? You do realize not every German is a Nazi, right?
Just to remember: I’m German myself. I didn’t say they are nazis, I said “Sounds like some nazi stuff, at least that would be my first impression if someone did it here”. I don’t want to implement Godwin’s Law in this constructive discussion. In my opinion it sounds like nazi stuff, because a lot of German nazis I know love to fantasize about their “Germanic roots”. That’s my first impression while I don’t have much detail what you are referring to, since I never experienced such a celebration myself.
Could you understand my position better by what I wrote aside from that stuff about Garmanic celebrations? Because I would like to better understand the US-American view on patriotism while explaining my own.
I could substitute some other examples but the two most recent events I had attended were those two nationalities / heritage. In the past, it’s been Portuguese, Polish, French, Irish and probably a few more I’ve forgotten.
I think if you want to understand the American view on patriotism, just have a giant crowd of people who rarely, if ever, leave their country, speak only English, are fed propaganda that their country is the best in all areas, has massive problems with education, and then you have the American public.
If you are told your country is the best, are very incurious and are fed propaganda, you will love your country unconditionally. I don’t want to give you the impression that everyone in the country is brainwashed, I’m just trying to convey that at least a percentage of our population honestly believes they live in the best country in the world.
Don’t get me wrong, the USA is still highly developed and has its strengths, but if you look at some (what I believe to be) important statistics like, life expectancy, literacy rate, happiness index, internet speed, press freedom, we sure as hell aren’t #1, but we aren’t in last place either.
It’s been sad to watch science come under increasing criticism instead of developing positively. Just today, a new budget was proposed for the federal government that makes sweeping cuts to quite a few organizations, like the Department of Energy, the Environmental Protection Agency, NASA (our space agency), and most importantly, the National Science Foundation.
The one thing that I feel good about is even if we drop the ball here in the USA, other countries won’t stand still and will continue to fund and pursue science, technology and education.
The reasons above is why I find it hard to be excited and wave an American flag around on the 4th. Things could be worse but they could be a hell of a lot better too.
July 4th is the day our nation was founded which is what merits the fanfare. I would also say that the “displays of patriotism” you may see are largely cherry picked examples. Your typical american doesn’t wear american flag regalia, much less own an american flag and wave it around.
Right now, the reason you are seeing such a pronounced amount of patriotism for Independence day, and I use that term loosely, is due to it being both the 250th anniversary and the current unpopular administration trying to project an alternate reality where they are in tune with the will of the people and establish legitimacy.
There is a lot that can probably be said about the erosion of patriotism in the US as it was co-opted by conservative groups in order to push unpopular policies throughout our nations brief span of existence and it likely ties into the destruction of our education system, but I’d rather let someone more knowledgable tackle that topic.
I deliberately exaggerated, but I dont’t understand patriotism in general (see comment under OPs response on my comment).
Ah, I misunderstood then. To oversimplfy patriotism is being able to love the people, thoughts, and accomplishments of a community (country) that you belong to while seeing and understanding its flaws.
I’ve seen some other comments here describe it to various extremes but there is a clear line between patriotism and nationalism (e.g. Nazis, MAGA, etc) A patriot understands that their country isn’t infallible, a nationalist beilieves it is.
For some people the only thing they have is this sense of belonging to a group, and for others this sense of belonging is what incites them to implicitly care for the success of others.
To clarify not everyone is a patriot, nor a nationalist. People have a wide range of feelings and perceptions on the idea of a nation and their place in it.
I apologize if this doesn’t provide more clarity. The topic of patriotism is largely a philisophocal one that would take more time to yap about than I have on my lunch break lol
The USA has never had an event to make Americans from shame for the country. It isn’t like the USA hasn’t done shameful acts, but there hasn’t been a reconging of what the country has done.
Most of us just like the day off from work, or the holiday pay if you have to work. and that’s where it ends.