If the EU is allowed to employ guards in MS’s buildings and to roll their own secured version of Windows, I wouldn’t mind sticking to Windows 11 EU. On the other paw, if DOGE is given access to Microsoft, I shall flee to Linux. Hopefully, SteamOS Desktop will be a thing if the latter happens.
For the avg person why not trust them I’m not too worried about what they can collect on an average person I use Linux personally so I’m not shilling for Ms but 11 will keep out more hackers then 10 cause I wouldn’t be worried about them stealing my card info but a hacker yes i would be
Even if you trust their intent to not misuse your data, there are now a lot of live rpc hooks into your operating system, controllable by anyone who can compromise their azure implementation, which has happened at least twice in recent memory. If the data never leaves your device, and they didn’t have a way in, they wouldn’t have those things to lose in the first place.
The interdependency itself, regardless of intent, is inherently more dangerous than the previous separate paradigm that used to exist.
I’m pretty sure all personal data leaks to me and my friends and family have nothing to do with personal EOL OS on personal PCs/laptops.
My Dad, ran Windows 7 (yes, 7) until he passed last year, almost 80. We had his credit locked down, we had antivirus running, we kept the browsers up to date, and he was very good about not clicking weird links or calling fake support numbers.
His biggest data breach (and ours too)? Was from myChart a couple years ago, he got a letter that his data was part of the big hack, yada yada yada free credit reporting - so sorry. If you don’t know, myChart is like The Main medical everything portal in the US at least for most doctors and hospital systems. So all your test results, making appointments, sending messages, requesting Rx refills, all through myChart’s website. The hospitals and doctors using MyChart can see pretty much everything in your myChart health record (some exceptions)
So using super secure OS on your personal computer means nothing when you are part of a hundreds of millions data dump from someone hacking into that. Not having an account just means you don’t have access to your own records, they are still part of the system.
But Yes, I was in the process of getting Dad an upgrade to a flavor of Linux that would be the closest to what he was used to. And the only reason was because browser support was coming to EOL for Windows 7. He really didn’t want to change or lose his solitaire games and he deserved a stress-free life to play his damn games like he wanted.
THAT SAID - if businesses are using EOL OS and getting hacked - they definitely need to do whatever they need to do and protect their customer data. But EOL OS for an average person checking email, making doctor’s appointments, checking headlines, and playing solitaire while streaming music certainly doesn’t call for a need to panic.
IF you are a power user doing sometimes sketch things (according to Apple/MS anyway) probably switch to Linux sooner than later.
We have computers running Linux, Windows 10 (one of which was on 8.1 until a year ago), and Windows 11 in our house. The one on 11 is being tested basically, and will probably be reinstalled with Linux. But we are trying to give it a shot.
Your dad probably got lucky, and your router’s firewall probably did a lot of the heavy lifting. If you were to connect a win 2000/XP computer to the internet today without a firewall between, it would be compromised in minutes (there are loads of videos of people demoing this).
While I don’t have proof that 7 would be the same, I strongly suspect it would be the same. 10 will get there soon too. Firewalls will stop most of the low hanging fruit, but an application that bridges connections through the firewall are that much more vulnerable to exploitations that won’t be integrated by your running kernel.
I never understand why people are so obsessed with not getting updates. They usually just break everything and bloat the OS.
“But my security!” OS updates are going to protect you from 99% of the bad actors out there. They do nothing against social engineering. They don’t make you use strong passwords. Most of the security flaws OS updates are addressing are the kinda of attacks that only state actors or organized crime rings have the resources and abilities to exploit.
Governments? Heck yeah they need to be concerned. Large enterprises? Definitely. Small businesses? Eh it’s probably for the best to protect your livelihood even if you aren’t the juiciest target. But for an individual using their PC for gaming, social media, streaming content, online shopping, etc… The cost-benefit analysis is different.
It’s not different from physical security. Theres a reason you don’t need to go through TSA to get on a bus.
The problem is that as soon as a security issue is found on windows 10 it won’t be fixed, it is perpetual. In Windows 11 it will probably be fixed before you even know it exists.
You seem awfully optimistic about Microsoft’s response time lol.
How many people are out there today with broken locks on their doors or windows? How many stores do you think close every night with the minimum wage worker forgetting to lock up properly? How many people out their use incredibly weak passwords, share their credentials with others, or leave everything on post-it notes?
Security is a cost-benefit analysis. Depending on what exactly this hypothetical exploit requires I might very well be comfortable running Windows 10 anyways. The vast majority of security exploits require physical access to the machine- we only hear about the remote ones more often because they are scarier.
It might be a remote exploit or it might not. An OS is not just a program that runs in the background, if it is critically important.
These kind of exploiters don’t tend to attack you in particular, they have botnets scanning the web for any compromised machine.
Running windows 10 is fine today, might not be fine after EOL. It is irresponsible to shrug it off and not even consider the alternatives out there, including windows 11.
That’s where the “analysis” part of “cost-benefit analysis” comes in and it doesn’t make sense to generalize like you seem to want to.
Is it really that much more responsible to run Windows 11? You seem to have a LOT of faith in Microsoft to keep you safe. There’s plenty of reasons to not switch to Windows 11.
I also use Linux on some machines. But I can also see why there are reasons why one distro or another, or even Linux in general, may not be the right call for some people.
It’s not like Windows 10 will magically stop booting or something…
Running an EoL operating system is surely what you want to do with your personal dat-
Aaaaaaand it’s been compromised
Isn’t that exactly what’s happening as soon as you install win11?
To be fair, plenty of telemetry is still being sent by Microsoft in Windows 10. It’s not as bad as 11 though.
Security wise 11 is better
Depends on how you define security.
Is win11 more cryptographically secure, absolutely.
Does that matter if you don’t trust the holder of the keys (the Microsoft keys stored in the tpm) not really.
implementing a more secure platform doesn’t mean much if the only way you are doing it is by handing over control to a third party.
Would you trust a better lock on your front door if it meant a proven bad actor was the one who could unlock it?
If the EU is allowed to employ guards in MS’s buildings and to roll their own secured version of Windows, I wouldn’t mind sticking to Windows 11 EU. On the other paw, if DOGE is given access to Microsoft, I shall flee to Linux. Hopefully, SteamOS Desktop will be a thing if the latter happens.
For the avg person why not trust them I’m not too worried about what they can collect on an average person I use Linux personally so I’m not shilling for Ms but 11 will keep out more hackers then 10 cause I wouldn’t be worried about them stealing my card info but a hacker yes i would be
Even if you trust their intent to not misuse your data, there are now a lot of live rpc hooks into your operating system, controllable by anyone who can compromise their azure implementation, which has happened at least twice in recent memory. If the data never leaves your device, and they didn’t have a way in, they wouldn’t have those things to lose in the first place.
The interdependency itself, regardless of intent, is inherently more dangerous than the previous separate paradigm that used to exist.
It’s windows users were talking about here, data security is not exactly top of mind. But maybe many of them are about to find out it should be…
I’m pretty sure all personal data leaks to me and my friends and family have nothing to do with personal EOL OS on personal PCs/laptops.
My Dad, ran Windows 7 (yes, 7) until he passed last year, almost 80. We had his credit locked down, we had antivirus running, we kept the browsers up to date, and he was very good about not clicking weird links or calling fake support numbers.
His biggest data breach (and ours too)? Was from myChart a couple years ago, he got a letter that his data was part of the big hack, yada yada yada free credit reporting - so sorry. If you don’t know, myChart is like The Main medical everything portal in the US at least for most doctors and hospital systems. So all your test results, making appointments, sending messages, requesting Rx refills, all through myChart’s website. The hospitals and doctors using MyChart can see pretty much everything in your myChart health record (some exceptions)
So using super secure OS on your personal computer means nothing when you are part of a hundreds of millions data dump from someone hacking into that. Not having an account just means you don’t have access to your own records, they are still part of the system.
But Yes, I was in the process of getting Dad an upgrade to a flavor of Linux that would be the closest to what he was used to. And the only reason was because browser support was coming to EOL for Windows 7. He really didn’t want to change or lose his solitaire games and he deserved a stress-free life to play his damn games like he wanted.
THAT SAID - if businesses are using EOL OS and getting hacked - they definitely need to do whatever they need to do and protect their customer data. But EOL OS for an average person checking email, making doctor’s appointments, checking headlines, and playing solitaire while streaming music certainly doesn’t call for a need to panic.
IF you are a power user doing sometimes sketch things (according to Apple/MS anyway) probably switch to Linux sooner than later.
We have computers running Linux, Windows 10 (one of which was on 8.1 until a year ago), and Windows 11 in our house. The one on 11 is being tested basically, and will probably be reinstalled with Linux. But we are trying to give it a shot.
Your dad probably got lucky, and your router’s firewall probably did a lot of the heavy lifting. If you were to connect a win 2000/XP computer to the internet today without a firewall between, it would be compromised in minutes (there are loads of videos of people demoing this).
While I don’t have proof that 7 would be the same, I strongly suspect it would be the same. 10 will get there soon too. Firewalls will stop most of the low hanging fruit, but an application that bridges connections through the firewall are that much more vulnerable to exploitations that won’t be integrated by your running kernel.
I would not be surprised if some vulnerability is kept until Microsoft does not provide any patches as it is worth more then.
Right?
I never understand why people are so obsessed with not getting updates. They usually just break everything and bloat the OS.
“But my security!” OS updates are going to protect you from 99% of the bad actors out there. They do nothing against social engineering. They don’t make you use strong passwords. Most of the security flaws OS updates are addressing are the kinda of attacks that only state actors or organized crime rings have the resources and abilities to exploit.
Governments? Heck yeah they need to be concerned. Large enterprises? Definitely. Small businesses? Eh it’s probably for the best to protect your livelihood even if you aren’t the juiciest target. But for an individual using their PC for gaming, social media, streaming content, online shopping, etc… The cost-benefit analysis is different.
It’s not different from physical security. Theres a reason you don’t need to go through TSA to get on a bus.
For now yes but when a zero day is found 1 guy could literally take down every single 10 install and Microsoft won’t be bothered to fix it
Why not? They were fixing Windows XP remote-execution exploits all the way up to 2017. For free, for anyone to download.
And that stuff is only used to take down children’s hospitals, they don’t waste 0-day exploits on some rando’s home PC.
I mean… That could happen to Windows11 and be almost as catastrophic even if Microsoft does eventually fix it.
The problem is that as soon as a security issue is found on windows 10 it won’t be fixed, it is perpetual. In Windows 11 it will probably be fixed before you even know it exists.
You seem awfully optimistic about Microsoft’s response time lol.
How many people are out there today with broken locks on their doors or windows? How many stores do you think close every night with the minimum wage worker forgetting to lock up properly? How many people out their use incredibly weak passwords, share their credentials with others, or leave everything on post-it notes?
Security is a cost-benefit analysis. Depending on what exactly this hypothetical exploit requires I might very well be comfortable running Windows 10 anyways. The vast majority of security exploits require physical access to the machine- we only hear about the remote ones more often because they are scarier.
It might be a remote exploit or it might not. An OS is not just a program that runs in the background, if it is critically important.
These kind of exploiters don’t tend to attack you in particular, they have botnets scanning the web for any compromised machine.
Running windows 10 is fine today, might not be fine after EOL. It is irresponsible to shrug it off and not even consider the alternatives out there, including windows 11.
That’s where the “analysis” part of “cost-benefit analysis” comes in and it doesn’t make sense to generalize like you seem to want to.
Is it really that much more responsible to run Windows 11? You seem to have a LOT of faith in Microsoft to keep you safe. There’s plenty of reasons to not switch to Windows 11.
I also use Linux on some machines. But I can also see why there are reasons why one distro or another, or even Linux in general, may not be the right call for some people.
I use Linux exclusively but I don’t think it’s relevant to the discussion.
I would rather use windows 11 than any other EOL version of windows. I loved windows XP when it came out, wouldn’t dare to use it today.
While I agree, I have seen TSA working at the bus station.