I told you, I think it’s highly unlikely that more than 700,000 were killed, and archival evidence supports that number being lower. We unfortunately will likely never know the true number, but in the end this number is far below the 12 million often recited. If all 700,000 truly did die, then that’s within the bounds of what I think happened.
That’s what I mean by you being uncharitable towards me almost intentionally. I never once said that there weren’t excesses or that nobody died, the figure I was arguing against was the “millions” you walked back. I think if you were focused on reaching an understanding, rather than immediately framing me as some entirely unreasonable person that thinks Stalin was a perfect saint free from sin, we would be having much shorter convos.
Either way, you should keep reading Blackshirts, evidently it seems you think it’s good enough to recommend to others, so I think you’ll be very surprised to learn that MLs don’t think the USSR was a perfect wonderland paradise. I honestly think it could have been close by this point had it not fallen, but that’s just dreaming at this point and sadly we have the Russian Federation, and the 7 million people who died due to the re-introduction of Capitalism.
I think if you were focused on reaching an understanding, rather than immediately framing me as some entirely unreasonable person that thinks Stalin was a perfect saint free from sin, we would be having much shorter convos.
I’ll try my best in the future.
evidently it seems you think it’s good enough to recommend to others
Wdym by “think it’s good enough to recommend to others”? I haven’t recommended it to anyone i know. Unless you’re talking about that one thread yesterday. In that case, i do plan to finish it as soon as my exams are done
I appreciate your effort. Genuinely, I do, that’s why I even bother engaging with you, because despite clearly holding anti-AES views, you don’t actually shut out any and all evidence. For what it’s worth, I held similar views to you about a decade ago, and I don’t mean that in a condescending way, we all have our own political journeys and I am older than you (unless you went back to school). I see genuine hope in you becoming a Leftist eventually if you remain open to reading and hearing viewpoints alternative to your current understanding.
As for what you mean, yes, I was referring to that thread. I saw your response while I was making my own.
Further, I am going to go ahead and plug Blowback again. It’s a podcast, so you should be able to listen to it while doing whatever else you’re doing (unless you’re studying, of course). I’ll link the first episode here. If you’re a USian like I am, you owe it to the people of the world the genocidal US Empire has destroyed and slaughtered for profit to take a real look at the hellish sins of the United States.
despite clearly holding anti-AES views, you don’t actually shut out any and all evidence.
Thanks, i try my best to always argue in good faith and remain open-minded. Only if that were the spirit many went into discussions with.
I am older than you (unless you went back to school). I see genuine hope in you becoming a Leftist eventually
Yeah you’re older. I’m 19. Although i don’t know about me being a leftist someday haha. Maybe it’s not entirely far-fetched since it was only a couple years ago i held conservative views, but we’ll see.
Further, I am going to go ahead and plug Blowback again
I’ll be sure to check it out!
USian like I am
I’m not American - I’m British and Nigerian. The former i obtained by birth, but we have our own atrocities as well.
For what it’s worth, I would consider my former self to have been liberal, but with reactionary views shaped by those I grew up around. I don’t think we would have been far apart in terms of views, I didn’t start supporting AES until I truly did the legwork of diving deep into Marxist theory and history. If I wanted a shortcut, I would have read Blackshirts and Reds first, which is why it’s early in the reading list I made.
As for being British and Nigerian, Blowback is still great, and helps explain a more sympathetic view towards Iraq, Cuba, Korea, etc. It has 5 seasons, 1 topic each.
Ok, so we agree in the end other than on the point of whether those 700k+ people were killed or not - at least you seem to think they weren’t.
It’s a stalemate.
I told you, I think it’s highly unlikely that more than 700,000 were killed, and archival evidence supports that number being lower. We unfortunately will likely never know the true number, but in the end this number is far below the 12 million often recited. If all 700,000 truly did die, then that’s within the bounds of what I think happened.
That’s what I mean by you being uncharitable towards me almost intentionally. I never once said that there weren’t excesses or that nobody died, the figure I was arguing against was the “millions” you walked back. I think if you were focused on reaching an understanding, rather than immediately framing me as some entirely unreasonable person that thinks Stalin was a perfect saint free from sin, we would be having much shorter convos.
Either way, you should keep reading Blackshirts, evidently it seems you think it’s good enough to recommend to others, so I think you’ll be very surprised to learn that MLs don’t think the USSR was a perfect wonderland paradise. I honestly think it could have been close by this point had it not fallen, but that’s just dreaming at this point and sadly we have the Russian Federation, and the 7 million people who died due to the re-introduction of Capitalism.
I’ll try my best in the future.
Wdym by “think it’s good enough to recommend to others”? I haven’t recommended it to anyone i know. Unless you’re talking about that one thread yesterday. In that case, i do plan to finish it as soon as my exams are done
I appreciate your effort. Genuinely, I do, that’s why I even bother engaging with you, because despite clearly holding anti-AES views, you don’t actually shut out any and all evidence. For what it’s worth, I held similar views to you about a decade ago, and I don’t mean that in a condescending way, we all have our own political journeys and I am older than you (unless you went back to school). I see genuine hope in you becoming a Leftist eventually if you remain open to reading and hearing viewpoints alternative to your current understanding.
As for what you mean, yes, I was referring to that thread. I saw your response while I was making my own.
Further, I am going to go ahead and plug Blowback again. It’s a podcast, so you should be able to listen to it while doing whatever else you’re doing (unless you’re studying, of course). I’ll link the first episode here. If you’re a USian like I am, you owe it to the people of the world the genocidal US Empire has destroyed and slaughtered for profit to take a real look at the hellish sins of the United States.
Thanks, i try my best to always argue in good faith and remain open-minded. Only if that were the spirit many went into discussions with.
Yeah you’re older. I’m 19. Although i don’t know about me being a leftist someday haha. Maybe it’s not entirely far-fetched since it was only a couple years ago i held conservative views, but we’ll see.
I’ll be sure to check it out!
I’m not American - I’m British and Nigerian. The former i obtained by birth, but we have our own atrocities as well.
For what it’s worth, I would consider my former self to have been liberal, but with reactionary views shaped by those I grew up around. I don’t think we would have been far apart in terms of views, I didn’t start supporting AES until I truly did the legwork of diving deep into Marxist theory and history. If I wanted a shortcut, I would have read Blackshirts and Reds first, which is why it’s early in the reading list I made.
As for being British and Nigerian, Blowback is still great, and helps explain a more sympathetic view towards Iraq, Cuba, Korea, etc. It has 5 seasons, 1 topic each.
Well it was nice conversing as always. Have a good night… Afternoon?
Afternoon, haha. You as well.