Over the last few years, it has become accepted knowledge that the internet — mainly social media and, lately, AI tools — was damaging the mental health of kids and increasing the suicide rate amon…
I don’t know whether to answer “speak for yourself” to that, or what. I consider participation in online communities one of the most intellectually interesting things I do every day. If you believe social media is rotting everyone’s brain, then I wonder why you’re posting this on social media.
I consider participation in online communities one of the most intellectually interesting things I do every day.
That sounds kind of depressing? If this is genuinely the most intellectually interesting in your day, do you never wonder what you could be doing instead?
I have by now been participating in online communities for more than two thirds of my life. Started regularly doing so at age 10, in my early 30s now. So it is somewhat difficult for me to imagine a life where I don’t do it.
But I am absolutely certain that it has turned me into a smarter person than I would be without it.
So it is somewhat difficult for me to imagine a life where I don’t do it.
Contradicts this:
But I am absolutely certain that it has turned me into a smarter person than I would be without it.
Is what I’m saying. Meaning no offense, but the “I cannot imagine life without it” is kind of indicative of the brain rot people are talking about here.
If there is anything detrimental to intellectual development it’s things that leave you unable to imagine life without it. It makes you less likely to try something new and question your beliefs and habits.
Not arguing for or against here, but that’s not a very good test. I can’t imagine what my life would have been like without my best friend of over 20 years, but I can still say for certain that I’m in a vastly better place than I would have been without them. Even if I just limit it to my intellectual development.
There are valid criticisms of social media, but I don’t think that’s one of them.
Fair enough, but I think the point is less about the inability to imagine an alternative and more about outsourcing agency or thought. This is something Byung-Chul Han’s writes about: religion, social media, capitalism, etc. can become frameworks we rely on so deeply that we stop questioning them. It is undermining our ability to think for ourselves and question our beliefs.
A 20-year friendship is obviously a very different kind of thing. Maybe a friend you are far too dependent upon and doesn’t want you to hang out with other people is a more fitting comparison to most people’s relation to social media.
Debatable. While Lemmy doesn’t have a ragebait algorithm, it’s very easy to isolate yourself into a rage-bubble through your choice of instances and communities. For example, a fuckcars community is built around a negative emotion, as opposed to a “here’s how you can promote alternative transportation methods” community.
Negative emotion smegative emotion… We’re talking about what rots your brain
It’s the reward schedules and the pipeline.
The most addicting form of a feed is to limit good dopamine producing content to the minimum level that will keep you scrolling. The more garbage content they can force you to scroll past without closing the app, the more likely you are to continue to doom scroll
The pipeline is the way that the “good” content gets more saliant over time. More impactful, which happens to be more extreme and usually anger inducing
It’s like if you’re training your dog to sit, you can start by feeding them kibble every time. But if you want them to sit on command even outside of training sessions, once they understand the command you move to a high value treat, like cheese, and you want to slowly reward them less and less often for performing the behavior. That’s how you make them obey every time without thinking or looking for the cheese… You can ingrain the behavior so deeply that sitting becomes the default response to hearing or seeing the order
It’s just operant conditioning, but there’s another layer to the puzzle when it comes to the algorithm.
When you’re doom scrolling, you’re not evaluating information, you’re hunting for dopamine. When you find rage bait, your brain is not going to evaluate it, you’ve been conditioned to scarf down the treat and look for the next one
That’s how the pipeline works. It exposes you to more extreme information over time while you’re in a receptive doom scrolling state. Maybe the first time you see that “illegals are stealing Medicare funds” you might think “that doesn’t even make sense, that’s not how federal funding works, and you need documentation to sign up for Medicare anyways”
But through repeat exposure over time and this training schedule, propoganda will slip past your mental defenses. It works on everyone - some bit of that information will be internalized without conscious evaluation
You can find all the echo chambers you want on Lemmy, but the way information is presented is not carefully engineered to rot your brain. The sort algorithms are simple, they’re not tracking your clicks on rage bait and giving you an extremism score to custom tailor your feed, and if you spend 20 minutes scrolling you’re usually going to hit stale content
It’s the difference between looking for blackberries in the woods and going through reinforcement training to use slurs
Social media is rotting everyone’s brain?
I don’t know whether to answer “speak for yourself” to that, or what. I consider participation in online communities one of the most intellectually interesting things I do every day. If you believe social media is rotting everyone’s brain, then I wonder why you’re posting this on social media.
Social media is rotting everyone’s brain: random reputable link
I am open to discussing the positives of social media, but let’s not hide the negatives.
I appreciate the actually reputable link, absolutely love me a systematic review ❤️
That sounds kind of depressing? If this is genuinely the most intellectually interesting in your day, do you never wonder what you could be doing instead?
I have by now been participating in online communities for more than two thirds of my life. Started regularly doing so at age 10, in my early 30s now. So it is somewhat difficult for me to imagine a life where I don’t do it.
But I am absolutely certain that it has turned me into a smarter person than I would be without it.
This:
Contradicts this:
Is what I’m saying. Meaning no offense, but the “I cannot imagine life without it” is kind of indicative of the brain rot people are talking about here.
If there is anything detrimental to intellectual development it’s things that leave you unable to imagine life without it. It makes you less likely to try something new and question your beliefs and habits.
Not arguing for or against here, but that’s not a very good test. I can’t imagine what my life would have been like without my best friend of over 20 years, but I can still say for certain that I’m in a vastly better place than I would have been without them. Even if I just limit it to my intellectual development.
There are valid criticisms of social media, but I don’t think that’s one of them.
Fair enough, but I think the point is less about the inability to imagine an alternative and more about outsourcing agency or thought. This is something Byung-Chul Han’s writes about: religion, social media, capitalism, etc. can become frameworks we rely on so deeply that we stop questioning them. It is undermining our ability to think for ourselves and question our beliefs.
A 20-year friendship is obviously a very different kind of thing. Maybe a friend you are far too dependent upon and doesn’t want you to hang out with other people is a more fitting comparison to most people’s relation to social media.
And intentionally makes you feel bad all the time so you keep talking to them.
Dunning-Kruger effect in full display here…
Heroin addicts will tell you not to take heroin then do so themselves, that doesn’t mean their advice is wrong.
I think it’s more like the algorithm is rotting everyone’s brain. Lemmy is resistant to this by nature
Debatable. While Lemmy doesn’t have a ragebait algorithm, it’s very easy to isolate yourself into a rage-bubble through your choice of instances and communities. For example, a fuckcars community is built around a negative emotion, as opposed to a “here’s how you can promote alternative transportation methods” community.
Negative emotion smegative emotion… We’re talking about what rots your brain
It’s the reward schedules and the pipeline.
The most addicting form of a feed is to limit good dopamine producing content to the minimum level that will keep you scrolling. The more garbage content they can force you to scroll past without closing the app, the more likely you are to continue to doom scroll
The pipeline is the way that the “good” content gets more saliant over time. More impactful, which happens to be more extreme and usually anger inducing
It’s like if you’re training your dog to sit, you can start by feeding them kibble every time. But if you want them to sit on command even outside of training sessions, once they understand the command you move to a high value treat, like cheese, and you want to slowly reward them less and less often for performing the behavior. That’s how you make them obey every time without thinking or looking for the cheese… You can ingrain the behavior so deeply that sitting becomes the default response to hearing or seeing the order
It’s just operant conditioning, but there’s another layer to the puzzle when it comes to the algorithm.
When you’re doom scrolling, you’re not evaluating information, you’re hunting for dopamine. When you find rage bait, your brain is not going to evaluate it, you’ve been conditioned to scarf down the treat and look for the next one
That’s how the pipeline works. It exposes you to more extreme information over time while you’re in a receptive doom scrolling state. Maybe the first time you see that “illegals are stealing Medicare funds” you might think “that doesn’t even make sense, that’s not how federal funding works, and you need documentation to sign up for Medicare anyways”
But through repeat exposure over time and this training schedule, propoganda will slip past your mental defenses. It works on everyone - some bit of that information will be internalized without conscious evaluation
You can find all the echo chambers you want on Lemmy, but the way information is presented is not carefully engineered to rot your brain. The sort algorithms are simple, they’re not tracking your clicks on rage bait and giving you an extremism score to custom tailor your feed, and if you spend 20 minutes scrolling you’re usually going to hit stale content
It’s the difference between looking for blackberries in the woods and going through reinforcement training to use slurs